CB1100E

[SportsterDoc]

(11-09-2017 03:03 PM)suhawk305 Wrote:  Just to add to my post above. I bought my service manual on eBay for $44.00 total. It was advertised as, and appears to be new. My point was that due to the dependability of my CB1100E, with only 18,000 miles, I have not had a need to use the manual. I have looked up advise, offered by forum members, to learn more about my CB. A great reference book to have available for many reasons. And yes, awesome colored wiring charts.

My interest is primarily electrical, such as if a clutch lever switch fails or a side stand switch fails or a bank angle sensor fails, is operation rendered by closed circuit, open circuit, circuit to ground?

[suhawk305]

(11-09-2017 09:37 PM)SportsterDoc Wrote:  

(11-09-2017 03:03 PM)suhawk305 Wrote:  Just to add to my post above. I bought my service manual on eBay for $44.00 total. It was advertised as, and appears to be new. My point was that due to the dependability of my CB1100E, with only 18,000 miles, I have not had a need to use the manual. I have looked up advise, offered by forum members, to learn more about my CB. A great reference book to have available for many reasons. And yes, awesome colored wiring charts.

My interest is primarily electrical, such as if a clutch lever switch fails or a side stand switch fails or a bank angle sensor fails, is operation rendered by closed circuit, open circuit, circuit to ground?

I just checked my service manual circuit diagram for our bikes. Keep in mind that I am not an expert at circuit interpretation and definitions. I found the three switches you mentioned. I believe the manual addresses your questions. Your examples:
The clutch lever switch is open (like the horn switch), and will complete the circuit when activated.
Likewise, the side stand switch is open when the stand is down, has to be up to complete the circuit.
Not sure about bank angle sensor, looks like it say ground out?

I am not sure I gave you the information you need. Good luck.

[SportsterDoc]

(11-10-2017 04:54 PM)suhawk305 Wrote:  I just checked my service manual circuit diagram for our bikes. Keep in mind that I am not an expert at circuit interpretation and definitions. I found the three switches you mentioned. I believe the manual addresses your questions. Your examples:
The clutch lever switch is open (like the horn switch), and will complete the circuit when activated.
Likewise, the side stand switch is open when the stand is down, has to be up to complete the circuit.
Not sure about bank angle sensor, looks like it say ground out?

I am not sure I gave you the information you need. Good luck.

Good info to start.
Clutch: Jumper wires (BI to BI/W) to bypass
Side stand: Jumper wires (G/W to G) to bypass
BAS/Tilt: Need to check further...but may be similar to post one of this thread http://xlforum.net/vbportal/forums/showt...777&page=7

Thanks to a forum member for a glimpse at a schematic (still checking if it is appropriate for my 2014 standard), the CB1100 BAS has
Green to ground
White/black fused power (noted VCC on schematic)
Red/orange to "engine stop relay"

This red/orange appears to be the ground for the internal relay coil, completing the coil circuit for the black wire on the other side of the coil.
Need to check more carefully.

If I am reading that correctly, the "engine stop relay" coil contacts closes red/white to black/white.

So, I am starting to think that the BAS closes R/O to ground.
If it needed to be bypassed, cap the white/black, connect R/O to ground.

This would then be the same as pre 04 Sportster BAS wiring, just different colors. Until proven, be good to have a spare fuse available!

I have experienced only two BAS failures...not preventing running, but failing to kill the engine when laid over.

Once on a almost new XLH883 Sportster and twice on my 2018 Yamaha XT250. One of the situations was with the handlebars lower than the tires, so definitely not an issue of the bike not being horizontal.

May never need this info, but I do like to be prepared.

If any forum member has more details about the BAS, input would be appreciated.

[Flynrider]

(11-10-2017 05:14 PM)SportsterDoc Wrote:  Good info to start.
Clutch: Jumper wires to bypass
Side stand: Jumper wires to bypass
BAS/Tilt: Need to check further...but may be similar to post one of this thread http://xlforum.net/vbportal/forums/showt...777&page=7

I like the way you think After being stranded on the side of a deserted back road this summer, one of my winter projects will be to bypass the flaky kill switch that left me there. Now that you mention it, I may add the clutch and side stand switches as well.

[SportsterDoc]

(11-10-2017 05:36 PM)Flynrider Wrote:  I like the way you think After being stranded on the side of a deserted back road this summer, one of my winter projects will be to bypass the flaky kill switch that left me there. Now that you mention it, I may add the clutch and side stand switches as well.

I don't mind the interlocks, as long as I know location, they are reasonably accessible and I know how to bypass.

I carry a pocket multimeter in my truck, but not usually on a bike.
A simple 12 vdc test light may be helpful for many situations.

OTOH: I had zero issues with my 1976 CB750F from 1976 to 1981, and I did replace dual points with a Martek 440 electronic ignition.

[The ferret]

(11-10-2017 05:14 PM)SportsterDoc Wrote:  

(11-10-2017 04:54 PM)suhawk305 Wrote:  I just checked my service manual circuit diagram for our bikes. Keep in mind that I am not an expert at circuit interpretation and definitions. I found the three switches you mentioned. I believe the manual addresses your questions. Your examples:
The clutch lever switch is open (like the horn switch), and will complete the circuit when activated.
Likewise, the side stand switch is open when the stand is down, has to be up to complete the circuit.
Not sure about bank angle sensor, looks like it say ground out?

I am not sure I gave you the information you need. Good luck.

Good info to start.
Clutch: Jumper wires (BI to BI/W) to bypass
Side stand: Jumper wires (G/W to G) to bypass
BAS/Tilt: Need to check further...but may be similar to post one of this thread http://xlforum.net/vbportal/forums/showt...777&page=7

Thanks to a forum member for a glimpse at a schematic (still checking if it is appropriate for my 2014 standard), the CB1100 BAS has
Green to ground
White/black fused power (noted VCC on schematic)
Red/orange to "engine stop relay"

This red/orange appears to be the ground for the internal relay coil, completing the coil circuit for the black wire on the other side of the coil.
Need to check more carefully.

If I am reading that correctly, the "engine stop relay" coil contacts closes red/white to black/white.

So, I am starting to think that the BAS closes R/O to ground.
If it needed to be bypassed, cap the white/black, connect R/O to ground.

This would then be the same as pre 04 Sportster BAS wiring, just different colors. Until proven, be good to have a spare fuse available!

I have experienced only two BAS failures...not preventing running, but failing to kill the engine when laid over.

Once on a almost new XLH883 Sportster and twice on my 2018 Yamaha XT250. One of the situations was with the handlebars lower than the tires, so definitely not an issue of the bike not being horizontal.

May never need this info, but I do like to be prepared.

If any forum member has more details about the BAS, input would be appreciated.

Reading that was like being back in Chemistry or Calculus class. Made no sense at all to me, but Jean Enstrand probably understood it. She understood everything.

[SportsterDoc]

(11-10-2017 06:02 PM)The ferret Wrote:  Reading that was like being back in Chemistry or Calculus class. Made no sense at all to me, but Jean Enstrand probably understood it. She understood everything.

Funny!
Do you have any idea how much info I gleaned from your posts before pulling the trigger?!
Maybe they were not electrical, but a whole lot of good info.

The BAS has 3 wires:
one hot
one ground
one to/from engine stop relay

I suspect, but do not yet know, that the hot closes eng stop relay to ground and that hot is interrupted if tilted.

If correct, I think it is done this way (same as Sportster) so that turning key off and then back on is necessary to restart, rather than directly interrupting the relay to ground wire.

I don't mind clutch and side stand interlocks, but have little use for the BAS. I laid my XT250 (has tilt switch) over 3 times in 6 weeks. No damage (minor scratches), but the engine keep running on two of those incidents, requiring use of stop/run (kill) switch to stop the rear tire from going around.

[CA200]

SportsterDoc Honda has been very picky about their BAS .
They had a massive recall on the ones on their Gold Wings and ST1100s back in the 90s. I don't think you will have any problems .

[The ferret]

LOL thanks Doc. Can guarantee you it wasn't electrical advice you gleaned from me. That stuff's voodoo

[Lord Popgun]

Actually, the BAS removes the ground from the Engine Stop Relay when the bike is tipped too far. Not voodoo to me Ferret . Although, many components are filled with magic smoke. Never let it out...